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This channel is for discussing guides and the GAT (Guide Approval Team)
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Alsa walks differently
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i'm amazed how coworkers don't notice it
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Io's system is just crazy different
9:27 PM
dunnoes how not everyone is like that
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enough anecdotal evidence to fill a bookshelf
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We have some little differences in habits, but they aren't too noticeable and we can fall into each other's habits sometimes.
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Kitsune; so what's the best term for those?
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Like, after not fronting for a long time my host will sometimes clasp his hands in a distinctive way that Fox and I do.
9:28 PM
For these little habits?
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bduddy #Diana# 3/1/2019 9:28 PM
mannerisms?
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for the monkey mind if there's a better scientific term
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Um, there are some neurological processes and regions that have been connected to it, but none that are easy and clear for someone who doesn't know neuroscience.
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oh @bduddy #Diana#; thanks for your notes. I rewrote the ending completely thanks to you
9:29 PM
well then monkeys it is
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Also I think may be a miscommunication here; I only reviewed your "peace of mind" article so far, I haven't read the one about forcing.
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I know
9:31 PM
I'm using the same term for the same meaning in there
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bduddy #Diana# 3/1/2019 9:31 PM
I sorta remember looking at that a while ago, so, you're welcome I guess >_>
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I can't even find the draft for the peace of mind; was so long ago; gee.
9:34 PM
the "hormonal storm" I surely need to rewrite
9:36 PM
yeahs well; I have to consider the rendered wordpress post the only copy in existence. Thanks; I'll follow up on that feedback and bump the thread when it's done
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Breloomancer 3/2/2019 1:50 AM
I would like a co fronting guide, because I've seen tons of people talk about it, but I've not seen any guide about it
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@GAT just checking in; is the GAT approval required from every member on the GAT team; the majority? how does it work now?
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Breloomancer 3/4/2019 3:47 PM
5/7
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okeis
3:49 PM
I'll wait for the remaining GAT members to write their feedback before I go on with the edits then
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bduddy #Diana# 3/5/2019 3:08 AM
are you guys planning to review the existing guides? because people are getting things like this out of them: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/comments/axe7gx/is_a_backstory_really_necessary/
3 votes and 16 comments so far on Reddit
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We have discussed it
3:10 AM
I'm guessing that was about Fede's guide?
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Breloomancer 3/5/2019 3:11 AM
I don't remeber anything like that being in any guides I've seen
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Based on the quote it wasn't in any guides: I did read some guides already, and most of them recommend to come up with a "backstory" for the tulpa, imagining where do they come from and such. But I want to ask you, is it really necessary?
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Breloomancer 3/5/2019 3:13 AM
It says most of the guides recommend coming up with a backstory
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Or, none of the guides outright state it as necessary
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bduddy #Diana# 3/5/2019 3:16 AM
I mean you can ask @Bethel🌸 , we reviewed some guides on another server, even a lot of the popular ones were pretty bad
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Deleted User 3/5/2019 3:16 AM
I never have heard of giving your tulpa a backstory before
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That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
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Alright here's my 2c on the current article under review. We, multiples, are in a unique position. While one part of our brain can cause hormonal storm due to worrying thoughts about someone they love, the other part of it can observe those same thoughts with perfect detachment. And observing your thoughts is the best way to bring calmness to mind; both hosts and tulpas can develop a habit of pulling the over-excited system mate into their calmness bubble; to let them observe their rushing thoughts with an unclouded vision. This is literally untrue. Hormones create chemical imbalances in the brain that are intended to physically push it in a certain direction. Ignoring sensations and impulses is a sign of mental discipline, but the claim of "perfect detachment" is questionable at best. I recommend re-phrasing this section to more emphasize how different interpretations of events can lead to different levels of calmness and excitement - in short, this paragraph needs to be tempered.
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Breloomancer 3/5/2019 3:38 AM
It seems pretty obvious that they don't mean literal hormones when they say that
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I know many systems that face some kinds of stress. I know tulpas worried because of their hosts. And I tell them—don’t worry! You are not there to worry, it’s not your emotion! By all means, stay distant, stay calm, stay strong. And pull your host out, give them your vision, give them your strength. A different perspective is like a bucket of cold water, it can cleanse and refresh the troubled mind. In this paragraph you encourage tulpas to pull back from worries and real-world problems. Earlier in this article you refer to tulpas as being unprepared for real-world troubles. Why is the solution to that to withdraw further? That doesn't set tulpas up to become strong, independent, and well-rounded individuals.
3:39 AM
That self-contradiction within the core objectives of the article is its primary issue, imo
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The use of the word "hormonal" threw me off a bit, I don't know why it wasn't just "emotional storm" or something similar
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@Breloomancer I don't get that impression at all. Love and attraction are indeed hormonal matters - and a tulpa and host are more likely than not to experience those things in tandem.
3:41 AM
Don’t treat your tulpas as idolised beings, and don’t throw all your problems at them, as they might crumble under the load too. Make use of your plurality and keep a watchful eye on each other’s state of mind to get the most benefit. Unless the first sentence is a reaffirmation that tulpas should not be made to bear any burdens, its phrasing and purpose is unclear. As a summarizing sentence, it should send a clear message. Also, "make use of your plurality" is a complete mystery to me. What does that mean?
3:44 AM
I really don't take issue with much of this passage except for the fact that it becomes self-contradictory by the end. Are you encouraging tulpas to be independent and involved while also telling them to remain ignorant of real matters? If the article just ended before the last two paragraphs (not including the mailing list and reddit post) then it would make a lot more sense, imo
3:46 AM
Anyway, I'll be posting those comments to .info now as well, for permanence.
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A long kiss goodnight 3/5/2019 4:28 AM
@bduddy #Diana# that guide with creating a backstory advice was Fede's guide: https://tulpanetwork.com/network/guides/fede's-ultimate-superior-tupper-guide/ Create a backstory and simulate a life for when they're not with you. Instead of your tupper always being present, give them a backstory that fits in with reality, a real-life accommodation, job, friends, etc. Visualise them living that life. Whenever you want to speak to them, you have to call each other or physically meet up. If you're willing to experiment, that is. This is the only guide I found saying that.
Fede's Ultimate Superior Tupper Guide
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There are way more than just that guide that need to be pulled from the approved sections.
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A long kiss goodnight 3/5/2019 4:57 AM
I'm not against going through old guides and archiving them because they're outdated. I'm a little annoyed that the OP on that reddit post made a sweeping generalization of all the guides when that's the only guide I found giving that advice.
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In general, I think it is bad to make sweeping generalizations about the quality of a guide based on if it gives advice that is commonly accepted by the community as good or bad, especially because this community is very prone to hysteria and mob rule when it comes to this sort of thing.
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The whole point of the GAT is to filter individual attempts at guides through an analytical and consensus-oriented lens and only approve those guides that provide accurate and valuable info.
4:59 AM
Those guides which make many unsubstantiated and incorrect claims are doing the community no good service by being approved.
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A long kiss goodnight 3/5/2019 5:03 AM
Fede's guide was approved in 2013. That was 5-6 years ago
5:03 AM
That was a different GAT at a different time
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Chen [Fake Discord Account] 3/5/2019 5:12 AM
I honestly think they should be archived for posterity, not outright deleted
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The real issue is taking them off the approved lists
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A long kiss goodnight 3/5/2019 5:13 AM
Tulpa.info already has archived guides.
5:14 AM
We could do a re-vote, and if the guide doesn't meet 5/7 and community approval then in the archived section it goes.
5:14 AM
Obviously, I think the community's input would be more valuable here.
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Keep Fedes guide I owe him that much at least -.-
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Everything should remain, archived at least. Deleting old information that helped lead us to where we are today is a valuable history lesson.
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bduddy #Diana# 3/5/2019 5:25 AM
I don't think stuff should be outright deleted either, just archived somewhere, as you say, with a warning or something
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Jay+Pinkie (Omega system) 3/5/2019 6:21 AM
Also, a redacted version could be approved instead, with parts considered inappropriate cut out or changed. Unless the original author is willing to fix it themselfes. (Unless the original author is obsessed with copyright, also.) (edited)
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Redacted versions are no better than deleting it.
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Jay+Pinkie (Omega system) 3/5/2019 6:29 AM
Well, I'm not suggesting getting rid of original, at least leaving a link to it would be nice. Plus, what I meant to suggest is more like (Editor note: Creating a backstory for your tulpa is not necessary, and under no circumstances should they be led to believe that it is real. They will find out it's not, and it won't be pretty.) (edited)
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Chen [Fake Discord Account] 3/5/2019 6:34 AM
we could in theory transfer those to a Google Docs and use the notes feature
6:34 AM
or whatever it's called
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so another problem with the @GAT process is that I have no idea if the commenters are on the GAT team or not just by looking at the forums. Maybe they should be distinguished somehow?
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That is something to bring up with forum administrators
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I assume the current feedback is four maybe; two no; and Kopase's not voting? (edited)
8:23 AM
and one feedback still pending?
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since we don't have any actual power forum wise
8:24 AM
you're waiting on Clo tho
8:25 AM
Kopase is not on the GAT
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okeis
8:31 AM
overall the process is much better than it was two years ago so good job on that
8:34 AM
I also want some general feedback to this question raised: Finally, but most importantly, the main issue I have with this submission is it comes across as an advertisement for your other works by the end of it. The last two paragraphs are fine if they stay on your blog post, but as a work published on Tulpa.info, they need to not exist. Resources on Tulpa.info are not designed to advertise to the reader. You mentioned that you prefer to see the traffic on your blog for business purposes, and if that is the case then this article doesn't need to be published here. You can copy and paste your finished draft into submissions and leave out the last two paragraphs linking to your other stuff, or you can leave everything on your blog and not have this work on Tulpa.info.
8:35 AM
some feedback stated it's fine to link the outside article; other noted that the article must not be attributed when posted on the forum.
8:35 AM
initially the concern was that the blog might die faster than .info; then there was a question on the blurb; now it progressed to advertising
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Generally, I see no issue with it. It's something we haven't discussed much with the other members admittedly
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I'd like to see this topic addressed by the GAT team before you get to my further posts; there needs to be a clear guidance on this; I feel. (edited)
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If an old guide gets unapproved then it would just go back in submissions
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A long kiss goodnight 3/5/2019 5:24 PM
I personally struggle with the idea that a big motivation for posting your work on Tulpa.info is to create another link to your other works or your blog so you can gain information and potential profit. It wasn't an issue I considered when I asked for the blurb before, and it wasn't until more recently I found those last two paragraphs and you post stating you prefer to see the traffic on your blog so you can "see the numbers". I believe the guides on Tulpa.info should be about giving advice and spreading ideas, not trying to draw someone into sponsored works so the author can gain ad revenue. I personally don't expect to gain anything in terms of money when we write our submissions. I am however open to discussing this further. If overall the GAT and the staff don't care, then I'll step down on this issue. If that happens, you can just leave a link to your blog post and there's nothing more you need to add unless you really want another short summary. Until we have a serious discussion on this situation, I will stick with my current stance. (edited)
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Breloomancer 3/5/2019 5:27 PM
It would be a problem for me if there were any ads on the article, but there aren't, so I don't think it's so big a deal
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to clarify: I don't have sponsored works
6:14 PM
I don't benefit from ads or anything. I do have analytics though and I use it to drive my efforts based on what people read more
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Grow the community, grow .info. I think it's fine if a blog advertises another site.
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posting my articles on tulpa.info in full with no attribution makes little sense to me as I'm losing all the numbers; I have no idea if the article was a success or not
6:20 PM
overall the traffic coming from .info is reasonably good; but the readers are much less invested than ones coming from reddit; they rarely follow up on any other articles
6:21 PM
the stories I crosspost to medium have pretty good stats too; I can get the numbers and see the sources
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Well, this is less gide discussion now, but how drop drop off rates for attention vary?
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I'm explaining why "no link to the blog" would be a no-go for me (edited)
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Oh yeah, but my question isn't much to do with the guides
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I thought this channel is basically where we discuss the current GAT submission?
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I assumed it was an open channel for just "guide discussion" in general, but I am not sure there.
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but it's under the GAT section
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I don't see anything that states either way. I'll assume you are right there, though.
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I'm not following up on the thread until all the feedback is done because I'm not sure I will act on it yet
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I just meant to say "I'm asking this and this is getting away from the topic but I'm curious..." (edited)
6:26 PM
Not to say you were getting off topic (edited)
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but there's a bunch of follow-up topics that I bring up in here
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